That is a good point, Jake. If nothing more than an electronic kickdown signal is required I have done this with the Sniper's existing output capability. ), and water-methanol injection. Confirm that you have the right one for your Olds engine. Ever wonder what a programmable ECU would be like if they pulled out all of the stops? In the absence of the MSD box, that's what the coil driver module does. This is a fantastic video, even better Datalogging? The various Terminator LS kits all come with harnesses that allow them to be direct-connected to the particular version of LS you have. You need programmable control of fuel and spark. Have you replaced the relay? Now, if you are relegated to using the TFI ignition that came with your factory EFI then you still might have a chance of it working, but it might require that you leave your factory ECU in place. As I've said before on this post, I never say never when it comes to ignition setups. Time to place an order with you for a HyperSpark! Oh, and you get to store and switch between up to four different tunes. This is most commonly used with the Sniper EFI System but it works equally well with any ignition setup where you need to use the ECU's points output to drive the Coil(-) but don't want to use an MSD box to isolate the ECU from the coil.Install the dual sync distributor just like Tom does in the first video at the bottom of this page. We offer a harness (PN ESP TERM2HS) that reduces the number of manual terminations to only one--LESS required by the Sniper! You need up to 4 user-programmable inputs or outputs. is the holley terminator x system able to control dual widebands like in a twin turbo application. Easy and stress-free purchase from giving adv. Designed as a direct replacement for any car running a 4150-style intake manifold, it’s easy to install and easy to set up. You can even specify that the closed loop and learn be disabled during this event. I may the only person in the world that followed Holley's suggestion to remove extra wires from 2 harnesses provided but now I find that I cannot go back. When it comes to ignitions there are so very many different things that can be done that it is entirely likely that there is a way to make this work. Could you post a pic of both plugs showing color and location on the plugs. Ash. I keep second guessing timing sync being right. Note too that all of the drawings in this post are for Sniper EFI-controlled ignition timing, so you can't follow these to wire your ignition. I need help. Below is an example of the wiring for an MSD 6AL. Can I use the existing stock ECU to control the ignition via coil packs and use the sniper just to control the fuel side- and in doing this would I still retain the OBD-II functionality- or would all the inputs being robbed from the stock ECU and sent to the sniper mess up the stock ECU making it throw codes all the time?Jeremy. to determine what ECU I'd need. That is why it cannot control ignition timing using the the GM Small Cap HEI or Ford TFI ignition. Let's start by narrowing the I highly recommend them to anyone deciding to go EFI. These do not include a touch-screen handheld with a setup wizard, but we will configure it to your specifications before we ship it so you don't need no stinkin' wizard. This can be done with or without a capacitive discharge box. Go with the HyperSpark and save the cost difference for some other upgrade.Now onto the question about the induced stumble. I'm planning on getting the Sniper EFI, Sniper Hyperspark distributor, and Sniper Hyperspark Coil. If you feel that the resulting ignition timing is losing the vacuum advance portion too early, then you're going to have to go beyond using the basic spark setting and use the 2-dimensional table that is accessible via the software. A beautiful 3.5-inch color display provides a setup wizard that asks you a few basic questions and lets you start the engine. If you have a GM LS engine or a GM Truck Engine produced after 1996, it is unlikely any other Holley option would be preferable--choose one of the Terminator LS Systems. The plan is to take advantage of the available timing control using the existing ignition system, if possible. Plug and play compatible with more Holley EFI accessories such as; analog style gauges, shift lights, various modules, and coming soon, 12.3" digital dash support! I see no need for the Dual Sync's cam I have MSD 6al and distributor. Once installed as shown above, the Sniper EFI System should be configured as follows,  This is done either using the setup wizard (if doing a new installation) or using the handheld tuning capabilities (navigate to Tuning > Advanced > Adv. Other capacitive ignition boxes will be wired similarly. If you have a tachometer that is already connected to that tach out signal, you need to disconnect it there at the distributor and then get your tach signal from the brown wire on the 10-pin hareness.If you happen to have a CD box then don't use the yellow wire. The Holley Terminator Stealth EFI Systems have features not found in any other street EFI system and will provide the appearance of a classic 4150 Holley carburetor. Don't own a PC lap top. Boy, they didn't disappoint. Gen-3 HEMI instructions.docx. Sounds like a good plan, Jay. The 4-pin module has connectors labled B, C, W, and G. Attach them as follows: I have heard that sometimes it is necessary to reverse the purple and green wires on some distributors. Would it be much harder to wire all that up to the MSD? I believe it would be able to handle I hope to hear from you soon! As mentioned above, even those who have the MSD distributor and the available rotor phasing kit have enough problems that I simply no longer recommend it for most.Let me be careful not to imply that ECU-controlled ignition timing with your existing ignition is not possible. Have a look: Sniper EFI. Capability Range: Moderate I had checked that circuit multiple times previously without any indication of a problem. But what if you want more? If that is the case then you're going to have to contact Holley Tech Support to have the system checked out.If you reconnect the 10-pin connector (as described in the previous paragraph) crank and do get spark but it won't crank when the coil wire is replaced there may be some sort of timing issue or the plug wires are not in order. This lets an already impressive ECU become, well, dominating (sorry--I couldn't resist. With the release of Holley's new Sniper EFI, the Terminator EFI is primarily of interest those who need advanced capabilities not supported by the Sniper. The block is grounded to battery on both sides with another 2 grounds to each cylinder head. Im interested in what you think . The best customer service I've ever had, not one of these companies that are not interested once they've got your money. Ran amazing. position information for a TBI, so I'd like to go with the HyperSpark since the While cruising if I watch close I'll see timing go to wot but tps is at say 55. I’m all but certain that I have some serious RFI interference because the unit constantly resets (handheld shows red numbers,AFR says heating, etc). When cranking it takes a To re-iterate:  There is no difference between the HP ECU that can be purchased individually and the one that is included in the Avenger kits (though Holley was shipping these wth an Avenger sticker affixed rather than the HP sticker. I would think it would useful information. The Sniper differs from the Terminator in that it has no EST/SPOUT signal--only a points output. The Holley Avenger features self-tuning technology and an easy-to-use hand-held controller. I noted the drop in price for the Dual Sync, but I've just had total timing low but I'd like to have full control. Since you're still in the homework phase, I would add that if you have an electronically-controlled transmission in your '95, that is going to be another challenge you will face. Timing is synced but system keeps making me second guess the sync. If you require transmission control for your application, a Dominator ECU is included. But, at least, you have that option. Further, we offer a 205-pound injector upgrade for the Terminator throttle body, so upgrading a dual-quad setup for those puts you in a position to feed somewhere in the 2400 HP (NA) or 1940 HP (Boosted) ballpark, which is probably enough for any blower scenario you might cook up.. Others, including some very bright mechanical minds, have spent countless hours trying to implement other solutions only to give up in frustration.If you do go another route, I encourage you to come back here when you finish and let us know if you succeeded or if you burned through 100 hours of your life only to end up with a solution that "only occasionally stalls." focus. Again, I appreciate your time. It has four programmable inputs and outputs.The smaller ECU is marketed as the HP, the Avenger, and also as the Terminator without electronic transmission control. That means this system will be able to handle pretty much anything you throw at it. It can drive 8 cylinders. Choosing Between Holley Terminator, Avenger, HP, and Dominator, Holley Dominator: EFI With Virtually Unlimited Capabilities, Holley Avenger: All-Inclusive EFI for Small- and Big-Block Chevrolet, Holley Terminator EFI: State of the Art in Throttle Body Injection Systems, Holley Terminator LS: THE Answer for GM LS Swaps, Holley Terminator EFI Fuel Injection System, Holley Terminator LS MPFI and TBI Fuel Injection System, Holley EFI 3-Port Boost Control Solenoid Valve, 205-pound injector upgrade for the Terminator throttle body, comparing the Sniper and Terminator ignition control capabilities. Did not hook up yellow coil wire. Regarding "Sniper Ignition Control Using GM Large Cap HEI Distributor", is there any reason I can't just remove the module and just hookup to the specified C/W/G wires? These two images show each without and with a CD box: Sniper Ignition Wiring with Holley Distributor, without CD Box, Sniper Ignition Wiring with Holley Distributor, with CD Box (MSD 6A Shown). I'm close to getting a Sniper for a '73 Dodge RV with a remanufactured 360 and the original Chysler electronic ignition. That stated, an MSD distributor can be used to perform ECU-controlled timing with the Sniper ECU. I purchased the stealth unit and placed on brand new Dart SHP 427 and things have gone well enough but the perplexed part is timing. Read someone HERE, this sight, about them all being FLASHED (?) Just like when using the points output with the Terminator, a coil driver module must be used between the ECU Points output and the COIL (-) if a CD box is not used. I'm going for 420HP Small Block Chevy Crate Engine, GM TH350 Transmission. Let me know how this works for you. Let me start with the easy answer--there is no direct benefit to purchasing the Dual-Sync over the HyperSpark distributor for the Sniper EFI System. As for all of the stuff below about rotating the engine to 50 degrees before TDC and this and that to get the rotor phasing correct--HyperSpark Distributor installers get a pass. Connect the yellow wire from the 7-pin harness to the tach out and you are done. Advanced throttle body injection systems capable of transmission control and more. This confounds folks that even have the advantage of a phaseable rotor. If a capacitive discharge ignition box is used, then the points output generated by the electronically-controlled distributor will trigger the box to produce the spark ad the ECU-determined timing. Holley Sniper Vs. FAST EZ-EFI. It doesn't take an industry sage to figure out that swapping a fresh GM LS engine into one's favorite classic car or truck is a booming trend. There is a great resource comparing the different Holly HP ECU, Dominator ECU, Terminator X ECU, and Terminator X-max ECU's Here. Thanks John Toich, Thanks for writing, John. I know there are devices that produce a mechanical tach driver from an electronic signal on the market. will I need to connect a HyperSpark to a Terminator Stealth ECU? I want to run Sniper for simplicity and aesthetics . And most EFI System manufacturers seem to focus more on "how to connect it" than "how it works", so even after some folks get it working they really don't know what they did. Hi was looking at distributor diagrams on gm small cap distributor if module removed can this be used on a sniper efi? Currently having issues with getting spark. that the video they had posted earlier. It seems pretty easy since it all connects together with plugs. At this writing only one application has been announced (for the Chevrolet Small/Big Block Engine, of course.) You don't mention if the intake is an EFI intake or if it is carbureted. Who else does that? Chris has forgotten more about EFI than most EFI technicians will ever know. Yes, that's even a few dollars more than the MSD route. But, in short, Holley currently only makes two stand-alone ECUs. Are we sure your carburetor will work inside an enclosed bonnet? These systems can control coil-per-plug ignition but require both a crank and cam sensor as well as coils.It is important to note that early versions of the Terminator EFI Systems didn't include a cam sensor wire in the main harness, so that would need to be added to do coil-per-plug ignition. Is it needed to control the timing? I can't recommend EFI System Pro enough. I came here for advice if I should keep my MSD box or just fork out the money and get the whole hyperspark system. The Terminator LS is available in a Multi-Point Fuel Injection version (that is plug-and-play with the stock intake manifold and injectors) or a TBI version (if you've found a reason to switch to a carburetor-style intake manifold. Built-in control for turbo boost, progressive nitrous (up to 4 stages! One other reason to purchase a Terminator TBI system is for the option of incorporating Holley's Double-Pumper-look EFI Throttle body, better known as the Terminator Stealth. Good news! All I got was the distributor. Hi Chris , I have ignorantly purchased a Sniper for my project not realising that I have no distributor available to run it . Then take a look at the Holley Dominator ECU. Holley is the only company making a TB that looks like a Holley carburetor. If you can detect the thin blue wire going to ground at the point the fuel pump should be coming on, if the thin pink is hot, and if you can jump across from the heavy red wire to the heave blue wire and the fuel pump comes on, the relay is probably failed. And if all of that isn't enough, you get 4 programmable inputs and 4 programmable outputs to handle those other events. dual-sync. Can I purchase a coil driver module instead of a separate CD (MSD 6A) box to signal the coil?Note: This will be the initial startup of this motor.Thanks in advance,-GaryB. A couple notes about the diagram above. The Terminator EFI utilizes either the HP or the Dominator ECU (although a "Terminator" sticker is usually applied to the ECU itself.) using the ECU to control timing, I was intending to stay with my Mallory Unilite The Holley Terminator EFI kit comes packaged in a large box including all the bits needed to replace an aging carburetor. Is that the case? After reading your article I am purchasing the dual sync distributor. I've tested and isolated everything to this relay, and I just cannot get the fuel pump to run when using the pre-installed relay....almost as though it is wired incorrectly....yet I can jump from my battery-power source directly to that fuel line wire and get it to run.