Common Circulator Problems. the circulator pump runs all the time on the boiler in the…. … read more. But modern zone valves have in my experienced proven reliable and easy to repair. For environment and health related worries it's usually best to start with guidance from your own doctor. This adjustable run time optimizes the pump’s cycle timing to fit system requirements. I have a 4 legs coming off my boiler, each with a separate circulating pump. Our photo at left illustrates the use of multiple zone control valves to manage multiple heating zones in a building. I remain unconvinced that either approach is always the "only" right answer to the heating needs of a building. The clock on the timer is a 24 hour clock, so spin it until you’re on the right side of am/pm. A recirculation system is a hot water line that runs throughout the house and returns back to the water heater. These timers are built into the pump or separate plug-ins can be used. soon i'll be turning all heat off and i'll know exactly the difference at night from heat to no heat, then whats left will be things like well pump, etc. Generally, they continue for more than 10 years, with some for 20 years or more.The pump of your central heating system can last a long time if it is properly installed and maintained. I installed a three pump controlled system with check valves in pumps and when one zone activates I get flow through all three but more flow on the zone with pump that is suppose to be heating what can I do to isolate the three zones so no bleed over to other zones accuring? It may be a small price to pay for the instant hot water, though. With the timer, you can just run the pump on during those times of day when you need quick hot water. Circulator pumps are small in size, making them harder to repair on your own. Using state-of-the-art electronics, the SmartPlus® Hot Water Recirculation will monitor and record the home’s hot water usage pattern for the first 7 days of operation. Firstly, the cost of modern 60-30 or 50-30 pumps are not that much more costly than the more popular motorised valves. The ones that work off a timer or thermostat would save some of this waste, but not nearly all of it. Generally, they continue for more than 10 years, with a duration of 20 years or worse. Pumps used in water re-circulation systems can run continuously, or be activated by a timer, thermostat, control panel, or motion sensor. It can happen sooner than fifteen years.Although they are heavy equipment, the central heating pumps in circulation degrade and end without time, which usually takes 15 years, but could occur earlier. I have a Grundfos hot water circulator. Can somebody tell me why. There are better designs such as the Satchwell but are still very expensive. For instance, design conditions might require 50 HP. Neither the plumber or electrician seem to know how to wire it all to the boiler. Each approach has its advantages and dis-advantages. Optical circulators have similar behavior. The 4th leg splits and has a pair of Taco zone valves. And adding zone control to an existing heating system may be less costly by adding a zone valve than by adding a circulator pump. It's not that the inspector is necessarily smarter, but rather that they have different experience. Yes, these circulator do run hot and would probably burn your hand if you left it on the motor housing. Just replace all the valves all at once, and treat the whole house as a zone. If you want to activate the pump once a day, start with six hours, but never go lower than five hours, especially in the summer. Won't this zone suffer when it calls for heat at the same time as the other zones? Or wiring to the zone valve? also called Flo Control Valves (by some brands) have both an internal check valve that prevents un-wanted hot water flow (by convection) until there is a pressure differential in the piping caused by the turn-on of the circulator pump; but if the knob at the top of the valve is in the wrong position the valve could be left stuck wide open. Joined: Nov 7, 2013 Location: Linden, MI. See CHECK VALVES, HEATING SYSTEM for details about flow control valves. It could also result in corrosion as well as your pump just not lasting as long as it should. I do think its only the circ pump running, but when we first got the spa, circ pump would shut off and we never tried changing anything like the timer (wouldn't know where it was anyway) Hubby's thinks with it running all the time it will burn out faster. Are the zone valves two different brands and models? Many basic questions you may have can find a better-organized and more-complete written answer at our website than we can provide with a new off-the-cuff reply. Don't waste the water while you wait for it to get hot. Water Saved: Having a hot water recirculation system saves water by not having to run the faucet while … As long as the central heating system is properly installed and maintained, the pump can be expected to last a long time. Many spas use a 2-speed therapy pump, with low speed used for constant circulation, and high speed used for turning the jets on high. You can safely run your pond on a timer if you have a pond oxygen sensor and have established the rate at which your fish stock depletes the dissolved oxygen in the water. In some domestic circulating systems, the hot water inside the pipes is kept at a minimum temperature during circulation, thereby minimising energy consumption, but at the same time ensuring that the waiting time for hot water is kept at an acceptable level. After decades of field investigation and forensic lab work, with exception of a few pro-bono or research assignments, I have retired from field work and also from forensic laboratory analysis work to concentrate full time on pure research and writing for InspectApedia.com. Being able to stop the constant running as soon as possible is something that you are going to need to do so that you can keep your circulator pump in good shape for a long time to come. IF it does not, beyond being air-bound (that can be subtle to find all air blockages), the circulator impeller could be damaged so even if the circ motor runs it may not be pushing water, Anon: the flow-control valve, a check valve usually found at the boiler hot water riser pipe(s), prevents water from circulating through zone piping until the circulator for that zone begins to spin - causing a more significant pressure difference across the zone. Your long zone could be partly air-bound, or there could be some other obstruction in heat outlet. Open as many hot water lines as possible until they stop sputtering to ensure the pump is full of water, and no air will get into it. For a hydronic system, maintenance must include the circulator pump, as it’s essentially the “engine” of it all and arguably the single most important component. The motor output can be set to run at a variable speed by either voltage or current. Mod Cut Link 3. Generally, no. The circulator is switched on as needed or in some designs may be wired to run continuously. Of course, if the pool is full of algae or a major weather event has occurred, the pump may need to run 24-hours a day. Although it's generally recommended that all the pool water undergo filtration every 24 hours, the pump does not need to run all the time. Image via Exclusive Jacuzzi & Spa Covers. InspectAPedia.com provides building and environmental diagnostic and repair information. Often this is around 8 hours per day. When using pumps for zoning,what stops the water from enterning the other zones. However they typically won't run all the time. hope you voted AND that our votes get counted. Circulator pumps are hardy little components, but they can break. Do circulator pumps run all the time? Individual thermostats for various parts of the house can activate their own pumps to move water through that part of the house. My circuits are running at between 9 and 12 watts which over a period of time represents considerable savings in electricity over the lower cost and more older 35 watt cheaper traditional model. Those less enchanted by zone valves argue that zone valves jam, stick, don't work reliably and are thus annoying. This could save some money on labor costs, but it’s important to do this only if you have enough experience to do so. This article series describes how to diagnose & fix circulator pump problems on hot water or hydronic heating systems. DC Circulator buses run every 10 minutes during the following hours of operation for each route. When the thermostat is turned on, the circulation pump works and the boiler continues to work to maintain its adjustment temperature. When you consider the failure rate of the seemingly most popular Honeywell and their copies (normally cheaper)motorised valves the multi-pump approach is probably cheaper. Reader follow-up: 4/21/2014 , the heat was turned off this past Saturday. 2. install larger diameter piping if your plumber, like our very disappointing one in Pougheepsie, saved a dime on the installation by using 1/2" rather than the usual 3/4" diameter heating supply piping. My system uses 5 Alpha 2's 60-30 pumps where I have removed all the motorized valves. Then the pump would only recirculate the hot water during that time. On cold nights with the new setup the heat didn't keep up and the house got progressively colder, which it did not do previously. In systems with shorter runs of piping the SmartPlus ... How the SmartPlus Circulator Works. JasI want to help but I'm confused by the question. Richard: I have a hot water heating system that presently has 4 zones:1st floor,2nd floor and 2 radiant heat zones. Some heating contractors prefer using individual circulator pumps, one per zone, perhaps because they recall the history of Millions of gallons of water are squandered every year because of this. The timer only allows the pump to turn on at certain times. The on-timer tab, with 15-minute run time on the 24-hour clock, can be set to achieve maximum savings. This pump also comes with a 24-hour timer; you can opt to leave the timer off and run the pump all the time. On 2019-11-02 by (mod) - why do I get heating water flowing through zones that are OFF ? I've been using 'em up quickly, it seems, and I am beginning to wonder if I need to set aside an annual budget … Is you pump on the return line?? The other seems fine. What can i do to solve this problemthx, having 3 heating areas(thermostats) with their own circulators I'm concerned about how the boiler will respond with the possible combinations of "heat needed" i.e., short cycling - it's a smith oil boiler with high limit only - currently it heats a large tank that the heating areas draw their hot water from, if i decide to add a zone valve to my boiler do i have to hook it up to the relay on the boiler. Start by checking the position of the control knob atop the check valves; those valves, detailed at A circulator pump or circulating pump is a specific type of pump used to circulate gases, liquids, or slurries in a closed circuit. The HVAC company says it's not the furnace because the new one has more BTU. Thanks. This primary cost savings comes from less water going down the drain before the temperature is suitable for use. Older boilers simply monitor the temperature of the boiler itself, maintaining the water at a constant set-point - typically 160F-180F. The recirculating pump keeps hot water moving through your home’s hot water pipes at all times, on demand, or set for specific hours via a timer (different from a water heater timer). Water not circulating,though the pump vibrates as if it is. [Image at left, Grundfos alpha series variable speed circulator pump - Click to enlarge]. Hi, I have bought some on mine on Ebay which are new and work fine. Adding a "more powerful" circulator will run water faster through all of the zones, thus somewhat increasing the delivery rate of btus to each area. Timers allow the pump to run only at set times, when demand for hot water is at its highest. If a pump has a built-in check valve, we recommend that a check valve be installed in the discharge line below the draw down level of the water supply. Most of the time, the system would operate at much less than design conditions, and probably 15 HP would satisfy most requirements. You can check zone valve wiring by eliminating the thermostat from the equation - remove those wires and jump those terminals at the zone valve and watch to see if it actuates the motor and opens the valve. The circulator is switched on as needed or in some designs may be wired to run continuously. This is a fairly new issue about 6 months, and yes the spa is always up to the set temp. Being able to stop the constant running as soon as possible is something that you are going to need to do so that you can keep your circulator pump in good shape for a long time to come. These checks should be made on a regular boiler maintenance plan. Then the zone valve's end-switch that closes to turn on the circulator relay. Another point, many heating engineers are full of s--t in saying you have to use a larger pump on large systems. 5. Circulator Pump Maintenance Basics | HVAC Hydronics. If the pump is sized for times when all four zones are calling for heat - say 12 gpm - won't that cause a problem, like noisy pipes, when only one or two zones are calling for heat? This is because the boiler heats the water up to (say) 180, then goes off until the water cools to (say) 150, then starts again. Water not circulating,though the pump vibrates as if it is powered, Honeywell ignition module flashing code 6 . Long, 2-year warranty; Cons. Advertisement A proactive, productive and energy-saving maintenance activity is to remove the debris floating on the pool surface with a hand-held skimmer. Common repairs may be: Broken or worn seals – the rubber seals inside the pump can age, crack or split, which can result in leaking from the pump. That said, 8 hours is a good amount of time to run your pool pump in most cases. Macmillan Publishing Co., NY, Our recommended books about building & mechanical systems design, inspection, problem diagnosis, and repair, and about indoor environment and IAQ testing, diagnosis, and cleanup are at the. Only those pumps needed to maintain adequate velocities need be run. Measurable Benefits. Click to Show or Hide Citations & References, Installation and Operation Instructions, Raytherm Residential Boilers, HOME INSPECTION EDUCATION COURESES (Canada), HOME INSPECTION EDUCATION: HOME STUDY COURSES, "Instruction Manual, Bell & Gossett Series LR Circulators" P86101D, Mayu 2012, Xylem Inc. 8200 N. Austin Avenue Morton Grove, Illinois 60053 Phone: (847) 966-3700 Fax: (847) 965-8379 www.xyleminc.com/brands/bellgossett, Bell & Gossett Air Separators and other heating system components, 8200 N. Austin Ave., Morton Grove IL 60053, USA - Tel 847 966-3700 Fax 847 965-8379 . A timer-activated pump has a customizable timer that can be set to run only at preprogrammed times. High efficiency, modern gas boilers fire at different rates depending on the load. Modern, multi-speed circulator pumps may make this not a huge difference, but it's worth asking about. Jae,I think you want a heating system installer or technician to take a look at the piping of your existing hot water heating system.Typically we can split off a sub loop of an existing zone and install a separate thermostat for the loop. I’m adding a new zone for a finished basement. valve costs a lot less. Thanks for any ideas, In the ARTICLE INDEX take a look at the diagnostics for The boiler and circulator pump run when the thermostat comes on. This is because of the Honeywell type design which depends on a synchronous motor running to hold the valve open and eventually the synchronous motor fails. Arguing whether multiple circulator pumps (photo below) or multiple zone valves is a better approach to heating zone control is like arguing religion. Hi I got six zones and 3 circulation pumps divided each 2 zones, the problem is pump link with 2 zones so when one zone open live reverse , and second zone valve is open automatically How can I wired the sistem,any relay is good or which type? However since each zone is individually regulated by a thermostat and in your case zone valve, that means in essence that the colder zone should simply call for heat longer until satisfied. With a hot water recirculation system: Time to 95° F (shower): 2 seconds Time to 120° F (washing dishes): 4 seconds. You'll read below that not everyone agrees with this view. We decided to try running the circulator pumps only when the house Their purpose is to allow water to flow through your heating system in one direction and only flow when the circulator pumps are running. Find and fix points of heat loss in the cold zone, starting with draftsKeep in mind that the zones will not be equal in size, heat loss, or other parameters - just as your case describes. During those cool-off periods the circulator will still run, as long as your thermostat is calling for heat. Circulator Pump Timer. Do circulator pumps run all the time? Where zone valves are used, one of several zone valves can be opened and the main pump can be activated at the same time, to heat a single zone. The zone valve lever may make us think the valve is open but it could be actually shut in the valve itself (uncommon) In my experience, older zone valves that I encountered in the 1970's and 1980's were often a budget model that did not perform well and were not long lasting. These pumps provide instant hot water, reducing the waste caused by letting water run until it comes hot from the tap. E-text, reports, photos, phone calls are never a substitute for an on-site expert. Or use the SEARCH BOX found below to Ask a Question or Search InspectApedia. I must send my regrets that our workload as well as the urgency of your situation preclude telephone, in-person, and any lengthy email consulting, whether pro-bono or paid, concerning the question(s) that you have raised. The circulator relay Tom Sawyer, Sep 19, 2015 #11. We also provide an ARTICLE INDEX for this topic, or you can try the page top or bottom SEARCH BOX as a quick way to find information you need. Ports are where an external waveguide or transmission line, such as a microstrip line or a coaxial cable, connects to the device. If the hot water is not used, it simply returns back to the tank. I took another look at the zone valve and noticed it was not seated properly, possibly off its proper position by ~5 degrees. In response to the national coronavirus (COVID-19) pandemic, the DC Circulator is operating on a provisional modified schedule. Consider this before you decide to go it alone. Everything needed for install included with purchase. it must have not been put on completely right, after reconnecting the zone valve head the circulator pump wasn't running all the time anymore. This process saves water, utility costs, and energy and sewer expenses. Thanks Mark, that feedback will help other readers. Variable-Speed Pumps: But the circulator is supposed to run some of the time when the boiler is not running. However, the water bill will increase if this is the case. It'd duplicate wiring already in place. Rider Tools. I estimated the energy waste for recirculation by measuring the amount of energy my gas water heater … Pool constructors often supply a pool pump with a flow rate to pump the full volume of the pool in 8 hours as a rule of thumb. InspectAPedia tolerates no conflicts of interest. The motor is cooled by the system fluid and the windings have high temperature insulation. I tried putting it back up to 3 and this stopped the boiler faulting on F25 all the time, though there was a lot of ticking noises coming from the pump. The motor windings are impedance protected. Thanks, Brad Reicherb, Sep 19, 2015 #10. Thank for your time and advice just the same. They are commonly found circulating water in a hydronic heating or cooling system. i made that zone call for heat, things were working ok. shut the zone off, i heard the … Sometimes it configures the pumps to work full-time. OR Imagine a weighted flap inside. Apologies for the delay. CHECK VALVES, HEATING SYSTEM https://inspectapedia.com/heat/Check_Valves_Heat.php They are coming to replace the circulator with a more powerful one, but I am trying to understand how the one circulator can properly serve the four zones. Design the system properly with short straight runs. When I just touched the zone valve (not the lever this time), the circulator pump again went off immediately. It also helps r… Many prefer the mechanical timer rather than the programmable electronic timer because it is easier to set. Joined: Nov 29, 2010 Location: Maine. Because they only circulate liquid within a closed circuit, they only need to overcome the friction of a piping system (as opposed to lifting a fluid from a point of lower … Yes, it has to work all the time - the system has been scaled for your home with the assumption that it would always be in progress to move the air that transports the radon continuously. 24-hour timer built-in. Turn the minute hand clockwise until the time of day on the outer dial is aligned with the triangle marker on the inner dial. Though other parts of a hydronic heating system are more vulnerable to failure, circular pumps are by no means invincible. Do circulator pumps run all the time? Although a pump has an integrated control valve, it is recommended to install a control valve in the exhaust pipes less than 25 feet from the pump and below the water sampling level.Check valves are built into many well pumps. A couple more points to answer some of the comments made and questions. 3. install a variable speed or higher speed circulator. Do circulator pumps run all the time? When the thermostat comes on, the circulator pump runs and the boiler cycles on to maintain it's set-point temperature. One of "zone valve" legs isn't running water or getting hot. Note: The 24-hour timer requires manual resetting for day-light savings time. Typically, they keep going for at least 10 years.While your central heat system is properly installed and maintained, you can expect the pump to last a long time. The thermostat turns off the pump when the water in the pipes reaches a certain temperature. Time: Without a hot water recirculation system: Time to 95° F (shower): ~2-3 minutes Time to 120° F (washing dishes): ~3-4 minutes. Heating circulator pumps or "zone circulators" are used to force hot water from the heating boiler through radianting devices such as hot water baseboards or radiators. A proper check can determine if the pump has the ability to pump the proper amount of fluid. That can sometimes cause confusion in wiring. Pros . Note - Do not set the time by rotating the outer dial. MULTIPLE HEATING ZONE CONTROL at InspectApedia.com - online encyclopedia of building & environmental inspection, testing, diagnosis, repair, & problem prevention advice. Schedule; Interactive Map; Alerts & Advisories; Accessibility; Circulator Map and Information Guide; Next Ride; Dupont Circle-Georgetown-Rosslyn. If it shuts down the radon will begin to build again immediately and its levels will begin to rise again.It was assumed that the system would always be running to move the air out of the house. When the valve is fully open, an "end switch" in turn talks to the circulator relay to tell it to start the boiler's circulator pump. Not all spas have a circulation pump however. Previously each of my four zones had it's own circulator. As the outdoor temperature drops, the heat loss of a home is greater, and the heat pump needs to operate for longer periods of time to maintain a constant indoor temperature. If the zone valve is open and the circulator is working water should flow through the zone; After turning off the main to the house and the hot water circulator the other day to change out a valve for our dishwasher, the hot water circulator hasn't been working properly (making horrible noises, not sending out water properly). It could also result in corrosion as well as your pump just not lasting as long as it should. goes up to under 30 psi when hot. DC Circulator buses run every 10 minutes during the following hours of operation for each route. Today, users don’t want to wait minutes for hot water to arrive at the faucet or shower when they turn it on — they want it in less than 10 seconds. Worse yet, installation of some pumps may cause damage or void a tankless water heater's warranty. For those with less experience, it may be best to go ahead and replace your pump. As we mentioned earlier, the optimal pool pump runtime is a little different for everyone. How long to run a pool pump. The "zone valve" gang retort that 3 of them control a single zone. Reicherb Member.