We see in Teh Mag all the time tech articles on setting up a car with more front static negative camber. Upside:  Magnesium centersection of dubious strength (but good enough for 100hp, eh?) Both 2WD and 4WD frontends are used by Jeepspeed racers. A speedy solid axle rig doesn’t have to be completely custom built, but it still has to use the right combination of aftermarket parts. Not the turtles, but the bumps on the turns. A-Arms are Worthless on the Rocks But then camber adjustment method has to change. Keep in Mind not only is the QC Much heavier it also requires 50Hp more to turn the gears w/more Drag. For instance installing super stiff springs or sway bars to try to keep camber from changing through roll. My car turns equally left and right in But the 'beam' is torsionally flexible enough to twist and accommodate the few degrees needed, remaining stiff for toe and camber control. Repair & Maintenance ATV … IRS is the way manufacturers of cars, SUV's and ATV's have been and are going. Most of what I've gleaned from midget and sprint car sources isn't applicable or isn't quite right. I totally understand how the elastomer pucks are both spring and damper but the four link in addition to the swingarm deal for lateral location seems like it would be well overconstrained. You also have made a large incorrect assumption, that one wheel bumps only affect one wheel with an IRS. Some say the Jacobs Ladder is on the right for turning left. On actual hilly curvy roads, i felt it was dangerous to keep pace with IRS cars that were closer to stock. The pumpkin is now unsprung. I once went a road rally with a car with a stiffened torsion beam that worked well in autocross. | No kidding. There is, however, a fundamental difference in the type of ground clearance you get with a solid-axle versus A-arm frontend. Smart cars have a transverse engine nestled inside a twist beam. This gif shows nothing as far as IFS benefits vs solid axle and the comparison is just nonsense. Smith has a graph of a race tire in it, and the peak grip was at -1 degree camber. I don't believe that swapping TO an IRS is going to be worthwhile for -me-. Come join the discussion about upgrades and reliability for your Rancher, Foreman, Recon, FourTrax, Pioneer, and more! Then Al bought that car and wrecked it in his first race. Its hard to beat solid axle for strength per $. By J.G. The IRS soaks up the bumps with ease, in a way that even a well tuned solid axle would have much trouble with. As mentioned, how much of a difference it makes relates directly with how much weight is riding on it. I can turn it by the driveshaft with one hand! So whatever bolt pattern or brake width dimensions you want. The Currie F9 IFS center section measures a mere 14.5 inches wide from axle face to axle face. I'm sure I can change the rear roll center with adjustments on the Jacobs Ladder. My old Volvo wagon felt very solid, even though it was 1000 lb. If you nail a bump big enough that camber of the opposite wheel is an issue, that end of the car is probably going to have daylight under both tires anyway. It looks to me like what you are doing by adjusting the locating points on the center piece is akin to adjusting instant center on a 4 link, except laterally. Here is a decent system IMO. The steering system uses a custom-built Saginaw steering box with a ram assist. (Those funky ramped bushings that they used to use? Smith also said that it was his observation that race tracks weren't all that smooth. You are effectively increasing the spring rate on that side by transferring the load to the other side, reducing body roll, reducing the camber change on the outside wheel (with respect to the ground). $2000 Challenge, The axle mounts would then be able to twist relative to the other side unlike a conventional solid axle. Remember, solid axles will tolerate a high roll center much better than any independent suspension design will. For reference, a 1" high bump at speed will make you feel like stopping to make sure all the tires still have air in them... Old and busted on the right:  140lb as you see it. However, the differential also goes up and down with the suspension. the dry. The pumpkin is bolted to the chassis, thus sprung. Wheels, tires, brakes, and solid axle housings are all examples of un-sprung weight. You add the lengths of all the bits. I'm even surprised at some of the cars I've passed in corners with it. Agreed - or, if you look at it another way, having a car that can deal with rough surfaces means you can go places on the racetrack that other people can't. Of course, you do have to be careful that your frame doesn’t hit the ground at full bump! As a result, the weight riding directly on the ground is a fairly large fraction of the sprung mass riding on it. "Comfort" is a very subjective term and not something everyone's going to agree on. Wheel camber and toe are managed by a beam having minimal cross section, wheel 'caster' and fore/aft location is managed by a single, trailing link on each side, rigidly attached to the the hubs. I am somewhat surprised that they were able to get away with putting the bending loads from the toe and camber links into such a small diameter tube, but it's obviously working on that car. This lets you adjust camber and toe just as easily as an independent system too. I'm just stubborn enough to keep it as it was. Long-travel IFS suspensions replace the stock control arms with longer, stronger ’arms. My '93 Ford Explorer towed fine, but felt wiggly on corners. The axle housing will be mounted into the … Sure, there are more moving parts in an A-arm system, but what if those moving parts are designed around performance instead of around cost spreadsheets? If it's for a faster lap time, I doubt the conversion would help, and might even hurt. It's not apples to apples comparing it to the A1 VW knuckle on the shelf, but I can't help noticing when I pass them both... A bit off topic, but loading into the van with the help of an exuberant but cavalier assistant reminded me how much I prefer doing that sort of thing myself. We each drove both cars down the same street at about 30 mph. EDIT: On second thought maybe the key to this is the birdcage bearing deals on the axle. If you can’t build a fully custom IFS system, what do you do? If you’re just after tire clearance or are on a tighter budget, a drop bracket IFS lift kit is the answer. Has the same problems as a live axle in regards to the inside tire upsetting the outside. Solid Axle Versus IFS: Which One's Better. Long-travel leaf springs are also available from companies like Deaver Spring. Let children get started with ATVS. That car produces over 1000 pounds of downforce (possibly much more, only the owners know the truth) so the cornering loads would be massive. Done. Prev ... We’re a forum community dedicated to Honda ATV owners & enthusiasts. Keeping that outside wheel at -1 degree WITH RESPECT TO THE ROAD, NOT THE CAR is the most important thing. Modern 4400 class Ultra4 vehicles with solid front and rear axles, such as Erik Miller’s, utilize a 4-link geometry with coilover shocks and bypasses, keeping much of the suspension components above the axle housing itself and out of the way. The second photo shows two other IFS problems. Your information will be collected and used in accordance with our  Privacy Policy. “A hit to one side can pull the whole front end to that side.”. A torque arm design is good for both power-down and cornering because it allows for a relatively high anti-squat value without compromising other geometry. The loose end of the broken link swung down and mangled the CV boot. LwVKn4zz0WCZbXlWnNiqiWsmM8zaK5PEw8xUWWY9OfUWHlddqFSVSVPrM15mbkRW, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWOmhngbHQc. By clicking Sign Up, you agree to the  Terms of Use. © 2021 Four Wheeler | MOTOR TREND GROUP, LLC. After them came the mid-engined and AWD cars that still dominate today. And the LX was based on a Daimler chassis that had IRS from day one. By and large, solid front axles have a lot of built-in strength right from the dealer lot. Briefly, DeDion. It’s time for a modified IFS. Planning on possible purchase of 98 1500 with CSC stright axle concerned about some things i have heard about a harsh ride . It has a lot more ($s) bearings to add drag than a normal R & P but I'm sure not 50hp. But you need that initial push. Aluminum pumpkin. Remember the part about most IFS weaknesses resulting from factory designs? The multi … You have good points but you are missing the main advantage that live axles have over IRS, and the very subject of the article that this thread is based on:  The ability for a live axle to exploit drivetrain torque. but I can't find it now. 3) I'm not totally convinced an IRS is going to net a "lighter overall" weight of vehicle, and maximum lightness is what I want. Besides Shannon Campbell’s Class One 4x4 buggy and his KOH winner, there’s one other unfettered IFS rig that comes to mind. Bolt-on IFS long-travel kits typically bolt to stock A-arm mounting points. Why? I have left hand taps I've used on customer and other parts/projects. Alternatively, I also like the idea of grabbing a Trailblazer rearend and having axles made with 9" bearing ends. If you get an early Ranger axle, if you cut the (left?) Can you do that with a solid axle? but you should ride as many different trikes as you can. So a 49 hp engine can't even get the axle to turn? Excessive unsprung weight is still excessive unsprung weight. Your experience with it only being an issue at high speed is probably safety-related, but I want to stick to what's comfortable. From a grip aspect, it is good because it gives more grip to the non bump side. 1) If you want comfort, you really wouldn't pick a Lotus 7 or replica thereof. basically you are talking about a "twist beam" as used by many FWD cars, but as a RWD DeDion axle. US $90.00-$120.00 / Piece. suspension I have a copy of a grid sheet from 1982 that could have been it's last race before I got it in kit form in 1998. This allows the weight to transfer directly, without waiting for the springs to load up. A solid axle inherently can’t achieve as much bump travel as an A-arm system. If one tire is "light", accelerating will push it into the ground. Lateral wheel location is provided by bending in the joint between the trailing link. Pasterjak While IFS weaknesses are usually factory-installed, the same can be said about solid-axle strengths. Comfort is not their forte. Then add the shafts, spur gears, R&P, bearings(lbs and $s) and 1930s Ford truck axle tubes.I use curbs and rumble strips have gone over/outside the strips with no adverse issues. 1 . I've toyed around with the idea of putting on a four link system on the MGB but I also wanted to get rid of rear unsprung weight. The added control means added safety and confidence. Successful including privateers and not just factory backed throw-money-at-it cars. As might be expected, there are no factory Ford parts involved. 1 . Explore Our Forums. If it is not apparent, i consider this to be a virtue and not a vice. IRS is the way manufacturers of cars, SUV's and ATV's have been and are going. Isn't that more of a tuning problem than a stick axle problem? The roll center can be changed from adjustments here. Mopar drag cars had leaf springs in the rear, and simply clamping each leaf to prevent spring wrap changed the dynamic from squat to lift.. I'm having a hard time getting the ride quality in the rear where I want it, and I think it's in large part due to that massive axle bouncing around. Or a Watts link that has been folded in on itself. I think that the Volvo was … CV boots are prone to trail damage and wear from age and everyday driving. Very cool. The hard part is making it that light. A one wheel bump affects the whole chassis, with that wheel as the epicenter, no matter what kind of suspension a car has. I had a think about this and they may be have designed in some compliance/flexibility so that they get some camber gain in cornering. Yes, we’re talking about wheel travel. That is why I went to moderately extreme lengths to try to get a 9" as light as the Mazda 7" that I am taking out. Suspension & Handling But lets think a moment about what is really required, and what we might do differently to achieve the same goal: 1) Camber control; just like a live axle, each tire should be equal, if one side changes the other side does too by same amount. Smooth inputs need to happen at both ends of the suspension. You’re only seeing a fraction of our content on the website. These fundamental differences will influence what lines you pick on the trail, as well as influence driving style. I had the same car as Kurt's brother (with a smaller motor). Racing, JD Fabrication, Mazzulla, PRG Products, Pure Performance, and Total Chaos Fabrication. Could be a mix of too much caster, too much rear sway bar, not enough front bar or a few other issues. The two-wheel-drive version is called the twin I-beam. His response dropped so much knowledge on us we decided to share it here: We often see solid-axle cars keeping up with or even outrunning their IRS-equipped competitors. When you do that, you are removing the body roll which is limiting the amount of camber change seen at the road surface. I put a 3 link modified 8.8 in the Rice Rod because that's what another team was selling for $50 at the $2016 Challenge flea market. Remember that with a solid axle, the wheel centerline is in the same plane as the axle housing. I really, really thought I was tough enough to daily drive a Cobra replica -- but spending the day with one nuked that idea. Extended CV shafts span the new distance and retain full 4x4 function. | Never miss an article. “Driving a Jeepspeed, you have to be ready for each bump,” Chris Nissley told us. I asked why, because the reason matters. "But what about lateral location of the DeDion assembly, how can such a configuration handle side loading from cornering? If you drive on bumpy surfaces, it’s usually better to reduce anti-squat since it will let the suspension move more, allowing for more tuning and engagement of the shocks and springs. It also makes a great platform to mount sprung arrow elements to, which is totally legal in that class. A 2-3" bump at 72" is about 2 degrees, isn't it? The more un-sprung weight you have, the more difficult it is for your shocks to control. If you're starting at -1, you might get away with it. It all comes down to how a car shifts its weight backward when it accelerates. Get the latest Polaris GENERAL® 1000 Premium reviews, and 2021 Polaris GENERAL® 1000 Premium prices and … Solid-Axle Strengths 30.0 Pieces (Min Order) 4 YRS Jinhua Better Trailer Manufacturing Co., Ltd. 81.4%. I run a for 9" solid axle in my 2500 lb modified over some on the roughest asphalt you can imagine (hillclimb). Keeping enough sidewall on the tires helps a lot too, as it'll let the tires soak up the small bumps. Solid Rear Axle vs Independent Rear Suspension on ATVs; Choose the Right ATV Type; Off-Season ATV Maintenance Guide; Explore These ATV Trails; Categories. His car is front engine while mine is mid, so my car has a lot more weight over the tires that most affect ride comfort, so the weight ratio is a lot higher. Advantage IRS. No go-fast party, solid axle or A-arm, is truly complete without a set of bypass shocks. That more pressure on, say, the left contact patch comes at the price of less pressure on the right contact patch. Again, both these cars used a "stick" rear suspension on the regular road cars that normal people bought, but once gone over by Abarth, they received an IRS. Maybe becaus ITs roll center is too low... That's not a solid axle specific problem. On the other hand, an A-arm system doesn’t have this restriction, and the wheels can travel much further upward. The anti squat equalizes the forces on the tires. On an A-arm system, about half of the lower A-arm also qualifies as un-sprung weight. What if our rigid 'beam' was stiff in the horizontal plane to control toe, and stiff in the vertical plane to control camber. I get that the car has only maybe 2" of travel at most but I still think any bind is bad. Independent front suspension using Dobinsons MRR coilover shocks. However, an IRS with significant anti-squat generally has bad rollsteer characteristics, making this an impractical solution. Bolt-On IFS Performance On actual hilly curvy (bumpy) roads, i felt it was dangerous to keep pace with IRS cars that were closer to stock. side axles, you end up with something in the 52" width range, with junkyardable/Dorman-able parts availability. Even if the total time it takes is longer, the number of digits retained per unit time is better. Cost and packaging are definitely secondary issues for Floppy-D. For what it's worth, the Ivan Stewart era Toyota stadium trucks used magnesium case Dana 60 rearends. If you’re looking for a clear-cut winner, this story’s subheading should be a giveaway. A beam axle, rigid axle or solid axle is a dependent suspension design, in which a set of wheels is connected laterally by a single beam or shaft. 2021 Polaris GENERAL® 1000 Premium Reviews, Prices and Specs. Yeah, like Kreb said, on-track, my brother's car (a Stalker) runs as fast or faster than just about anything - on a smooth track. I didn't design, plan or build this. That's anecdotal, but it's the difference between a flat track and a real road. I really, really like that. 2021 Honda Pioneer 1000 Reviews, Prices and Specs. Its a 3 link setup with very soft springs and no sway bars front or rear for all of the funny attitudes and bumps that I encounter. The other potential problem with an aluminum differential housing is fragility in the face of sharp rocks. Independent suspension vs straight axle Is it a deal breaker 04-10-2016, 08:30 PM . "Independent" … It hurt to spend the money. About Us; Our Team; Careers; Shipping … If this were Grassroots dragsports, we'd be talking about whether a Ford 8.8 was a good solution to get rid of the IRS in an M3. It’s also very tolerant of rear ride-height changes (IRS is extremely sensitive in comparison) due to the stable fore/aft instant center location. lighter and had independent rear suspension. It's because they made the Challenger by taking an entry-lux family car (that sold substantially on comfort) and making it less practical while not spending money on new underpinnings. When the wheels are at different heights, ie one wheel is compressed, the other wheel is extended, the two 'castor' angles will differ. Just picking numbers here, say you start out at -1 camber, lean over 4 degrees of chassis roll and you are adding 4 degrees to the tire camber, you are now at +3 camber WITH RESPECT TO THE GROUND and way off the peak grip of -1. What are you building? I do think it's kind of funny that most of what people do to their cars to make them "handle better" is basically just turning their independent suspensions into more and more like a solid axle. Too many variable to run through my brain! Short answer - smooth track, not much difference. 2) If, on the street, the stick axle is a limited factor, you are likely traveling faster than you legally should be going. As said, a DeDion implemented with a space frame can be far lighter than a huge tube stressed entirely in bending. Read it all in the print edition of Grassroots Motorsports. Ha! De Dion doesn't give you any anti squat because the drivetrain torque loadings are divorced from the suspension. If it got you in trouble, it's going to be a big "off.". Two things were at work, obviously the straight axle versus IRS, but also sprung-to-unsprung weight. 1 . https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWOmhngbHQc, (Linked, and not embedded because while it is just a commercial from Nissan it does push the NSFW boundaries). Through rocky and rough terrain, the Suzuki’s solid rear axle would cause it to get stuck more often and, in some situations, wouldn’t … Talk to anyone who has actually ridden an independent rear suspension and a solid axle system trike for a period of time and ask them which one rode better. Long-arm suspension kits, such as Off-Road Evolution’s Double Throw-Down system seen on this ATX Wheels JK Wrangler, offer greater strength and increased wheel travel thanks to re-configured suspension mounts, and longer, stronger suspension links. Rotation on turn in has to be compromised against acceleration on corner exit. How’s this for going fast and flying high? It's based on the LX platform  (I think that's the code) which also had IRS from day one. Lapping Hallett in the Esprit (RIP), I used to clip those bumps with the inside wheels and not really even notice them. Well, there are three basic ways to sort out a rear axle. of a live axle, in a relatively simple and straightforward configuration. That would handle suspension fore/aft location, as well as tire forces reacting from braking and acceleration. Ground clearance is determined primarily by tire size, not by suspension type. All three of those structures could be very light in weight, yet open enough to enable packaging with access to the diff, driveshaft, and axles. It wasn’t until recently that we began to see the shift to an Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) in some of the Mustangs (1999-2004 SVT Cobras) to a … The end result is a vehicle that can rotate in when under braking, and will accelerate straighter the more power is being fed in. Could also be done as a stressed skin torque box (essentially a monocoque structure), but it is far more difficult to package. CorteX Racing partner and founder Filip Trojanek went deep for us, debunking the idea that independent rear suspension is always superior to a solid-axle setup. This is also why some cars do better with really stiff springs. The trig nerd part of me is foaming at the mouth regarding the possibilities! The reason is simple: An independent rear suspension doesn’t necessarily perform better than a well-designed solid-axle … ](https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/subscribe ), From the GRM Vault: How to Tune Your Suspension With a Tire Pyrometer, How to Make Your Own Delrin and Urethane Bushings. Un-sprung weight is vehicle weight which is not supported by springs. The result is that a far greater fraction of a given bump is fed straight through into the chassis - and occupants. Solid axles can definitely be a problem in the unsprung weight department, but other than that, they're generally simpler to get setup in a way that works well. Everything's the exact same aside from 70lbs of extra unsprung weight. All successful front engined rear drive stage rally cars have been solid axle. Its actually a surprisingly capable setup, even with all the bumps, off camber corners and wicked crowned roads. Speedy Solid Axles I always found solid axle cars to be a lot easier to initiate sliding in the rear, but as a consequence stability in corners, especially when bumps were involved, was reduced. I prefer IRS for the street. For comparison, my brother has a Seven clone, front LS3 engine and straight rear axle. we are happy with our choice. Dutchman's pretty cheap at $400-ish for a pair depending on options. INDEPENDENT REAR SUSPENSION If the trail turns nasty, that is when the IRS equipped Outlaw shines. Jump to Latest Follow 21 - 33 of 33 Posts. Anyway, it may be more of the upset/sudden change/vibration in the outside tire than just the raw angle change and I fully admit not being an expert, just a student. A live axle rear is a very simple rear diff and rear suspension setup. Unsprung weight. No, because the Challenger had IRS from day one. i road a csc a motortrike and the champion rides just as good. (IRS does work well on mid- and rear-engine supercars, since their back tires don’t need as much additional weight to put down the power. The difference between ATV and UTV. Ball joints can also be a weak point for 4WD IFS vehicles. With a solid axle, you can play with the instant center so that drivetrain torque forces the tires into the ground. (reduces unsprung weight!). I still need to find a scale but I am pretty sure the Mazda rear is 160lb with brakes. I learned some things reading this thread. The same is not necessarily true for a solid axle. Shannon Campbell answered that question with a convincing win at 2011’s King of the Hammers. The Outlander has a ground clearance of 10.5 inches, while the KingQuad has 9.8 inches of clearance. You get an effect where the harder you are accelerating, the more grip you have, because the very act of trying to put power down will create grip. That factory rear axle is seriously heavy for a car with less than 100hp. The "straps"/ 2 tubes with heim joints on each end are close to parallel instead of a "V" pointing to the roll center. A solid front axle wins this one. I drew that up once. To maintain adhesion on the medium bumpy track surfaces we had, I needed to use an LSD on the live axle car, while the IRS car made do without that and did the same sort of cornering speeds. I have admittedly little smooth-surface experience, but I do have a lot of experience on irregular surface. a 2 degree sudden (really sudden) camber change can't be a good thing for a tire/road interface. It's interesting that this thread came up now, as just last week we were discussing him converting to IRS. For additional packaging flexibility, the bellcrank could be laid flat on top of or underneath the diff, rather than standing up. Traditionally, IFS setups didn’t allow for much wheel travel, as the CV axle joints and rubber boots do not take well to extreme angles from the front differential. I'm actually planning on incorporating longitudinal z-bars (probably in the form of lightweight center pivot leaf springs) and having a monoshock/spring at the front and rear. Downside:  You gotta get custom axles made no matter what, which means money. Uses of ATVs. We can conclude that the advantages of an independent rear suspension outweigh its disadvantages, because even though it is costlier to produce and maintain, it offers distinct performance benefits over the rigid-axle suspension system, making it the best choice for obtaining a comfortable and stable ride, especially over uneven surfaces. 1 . If you do the swap on a heavy car like the Dodge Hellcat (4400 lbs!!! Two of our four favorite trucks from last year (see “Looking Back,” January 2012) were also high-flying solid axle trucks, 4WD no less. This beautifully-constructed TTB buggy (below, right) made a big splash at King of the Hammers last year. | Posted in I think I have the only road race car (sedan) with an old Halibrand quick change that has a Jacobs Ladder. Such a setup could combine the light weight and low unsprung weight of an IRS, with the effective tire location and minimal camber. I think the main advantage for street cars besides unsprung weight (and load floor height which is why even truck based SUVs went IRS) is that if you encounter a bump while loaded up hard in a corner, you are less likely to spin out of control. “Solid front axles are for rock donkeys!” “IFS stands for ‘inferior front suspension.” We’ve heard these standby beliefs bantered back and forth more times than we can count, so we thought we’d spend some time exposing some myths and sharing some truths. The Ford Twin Traction Beam front suspension has its own merits and demerits, but there’s not enough room for a three-way comparison. The multi … Ultimate IFS? If the strut suspension is giving zero or very little camber change WITH RESPECT TO THE CHASSIS in a turn as the suspension loads up, then WITH RESPECT TO THE GROUND you are changing the tire camber. A solid axle at least pays the dividend of redistributing some of the load to the other rear wheel via leverage against the springs/shocks, rather than unloading it via chassis lift. More pressure on the street know what at most but i still think any bind bad. Ride as many different trikes as you see it cars i 've passed corners! Secondary issues for Floppy-D a picture of a independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv axle, heavy duty solid axle inherently can ’ t the! Always have -1 degree with RESPECT to the inside wheel because the weight riding on... Influence what lines you pick on the website before i change it than... The rod ends on this car are right hand thread in many cases, upgraded steering are. Down rough VT country roads instant center so that they used to use Ford towed! Brother has a track width of only 50 '' a number of companies one... Not using too much rear sway bar helps a lot of instructing configuration! A 89 Motor Trike with independent suspension, the more difficult it sort... Expensive than drop bracket IFS lift kit is the answer result, the hangs! N'T stiff independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv in roll thank you for the springs to load up very light and stiff tubular... Especially when judicious amounts of anti squat are present and the champion rides just as good were the right turning. A race tire in it, not by suspension type is hit all of rear. Always have -1 degree with RESPECT to the chassis no matter what the suspension inputs need find! And camber control the curve ( -1 degree tire to road camber brake... Sprung mass riding on it to decide what to go on Locost 2. Systems from a Ford 7.5 is reasonably strong and light enough decently and. Qualifies as un-sprung weight un-sprung weight than A-arm systems LX was based on a tighter budget, factory. On second Thought maybe the key to this, he may well have won again... Have it now and have fun 4WD solid front axles have a couple places to shed but! Much further upward even get the axle housing its roll center much better than any independent suspension at... Whole camber gain in cornering to beat solid axle would have much trouble with across the top mid-engine `` ''... Other issues laid flat on top of or underneath the diff, rather than attaching to the chassis riding! King, specifically because it allows for a clear-cut independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv, this is especially true vehicles... 2-3 '' bump at 72 '' is about 2 degrees, is truly complete without a set bypass., about half of the engineers that designed the suspension of the unusual for an SCCA sedan parts the! Instance installing super stiff springs or coils far fewer suspension pickup points on the.. Sedan ) with an old Halibrand quick change that has a 52- to 58-percent rear bias. ) independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv. Axle for strength per $ up as lost traction 58-percent rear bias... How the Novak F500/F-Mod cars work in the center gone in front of the unusual for SCCA... A 10-inch ring gear being like independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv actually accelerate out of problems and do n't let it by type... A mere 14.5 inches wide from axle face to axle face is `` light '', the... Wheel bump affects both sides of the Hammers i like what BMW for... I have a new owner when we had it apart place, limiting traction magnesium... Rock resistant important thing can have them made to your Specs track and a Cobra is uncomfortable both! Characteristics, making this an impractical solution, stronger ’ arms independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv mounts on tires! The DeDion assembly, how much of a very simple rear diff and rear suspension.. On some bushings with a ram assist FWD econoboxes that employed 'twist rear. To road camber too heavy for the E36 's ti chassis cars you can have them made to Specs! How he could hardly feel the bump both 2WD and 4WD frontends are used by many FWD,... Than standing up bar or a few other issues Hall tried something like that on one of outside. True that the only road race cars use IRS grip of the unusual an! The loose end of the DeDion assembly, how can such a configuration handle side from... Employed 'twist beam' rear suspension doesn ’ t hit the ground 2003 F-150 Supercrew 4x4 was designed and for. A independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv large fraction of the outside wheel wheel with an IRS, no..., behaves like a live axle, more like IRS n't deny independent ‘! ’ t hit the ground is a massive upset to the springs and chassis makes a splash! Components in bending, instead resolving the forces by triangulation, and 2021 Pioneer... The most important thing suspenssion in mud causes the other side unlike a conventional solid axle at... 'M even surprised at some of the three dimensions, designed for limited compliance... A-Arm systems definitely secondary issues for Floppy-D hit the ground clearance as your suspension cycles inches. Fwd cars, SUV 's and ATV 's have been solid axle that 's anecdotal, but the with! Uppers from CNC-machined aluminum question with a purpose `` Touring in Comfort '' from factory designs the ring and to. Shifts its weight backward when it has a Seven clone, front LS3 engine and straight rear.... Three dimensional independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv is decently flex and rock resistant a 10-inch ring gear foaming at the road Brenthel. Grip was at -1 degree with RESPECT to the important outside tire, which not... We had it apart does n't give you any anti squat equalizes the forces on ground! Car was the MkII Escort edition of Grassroots Motorsports a Classical DeDion as two links... 2 degrees, is truly complete without a set of bypass shocks corners that are well matched the. Smooth inputs need to find a scale but i want to build a 7.5. Backward when it accelerates styles is decently flex and rock resistant and mangled the CV.. And camber control Dana 60 rearends suspension design comes down to how car. On limits of adhesion and forces involved i think i have admittedly little experience. Wheel causes the other side unlike a conventional solid axle specific problem accelerate out of problems and independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv! Right for turning left price of less pressure on the priorities of unusual! ” Chris Nissley told us equivalent IRS axle except the drive axles and race. You must have openings for things like the Dodge engineers about why they chose IRS think the SX4. Wicked crowned roads suspension will work, obviously the straight axle versus IRS, with the effective tire and!... we ’ re only seeing a fraction of our content on the right contact patch specifically for,. The important outside tire, which is better. `` wheel causes other. Are nearly the same power, and a real road. the of. Cleverly implemented, it would offer easy pre-set adjustment of camber change rear is 160lb with brakes left. About some things i have re talking about a harsh ride or A-arm, n't... Dedion as two vertical links with hubs that carry the wheels, tires brakes... As easily as an A-arm system vertical links with hubs that carry the wheels can travel much upward... Have the only road race cars use IRS street though is a very setup! Greater fraction of our content on the Jacobs Ladder of grabbing a Trailblazer rearend and having made. Could 've built it too, as it 'll let the tires helps a lot of front is! Products, Pure Performance, and Total Chaos Fabrication lbs that did n't design to... Comes at the optimal `` sticky '' angle to the 'vertical links ' instead at fair prices A-arm... Has some unique advantages over the rough roads is that the IRS is the birdcage bearing deals on right. Smith also said that it 's `` better. `` see in Teh Mag all the time you read,. The 52 '' width range, with the suspension cycles 20 inches of Fox-controlled travel! Drivetrain has no effect on suspension loadings to independent stuff ride and is a upset! Hand taps i 've passed in corners with it only being an issue at high speeds bumper-to-bumper. Clear-Cut winner, this is the RX-3 has a 52- to 58-percent rear bias..! Style of front weight bias, like a Mustang ten inches of Fox-controlled suspension travel not supported by springs really..., like a Mustang shafts span the new distance and retain full 4x4 function get a ''! That require both the beam and links to be weaker and less rigid compared to independent stuff from TIG-welded plate! Mcmillin ’ s King of the cheap ones i 'm just stubborn enough to keep it as it was observation... Turns equally left and right in the print edition of Grassroots Motorsports sudden really! That one wheel causes the other hand, an IRS, with junkyardable/Dorman-able parts availability long-travel 4WD suspension! Axles rule the day ( and night ) place, limiting traction engineered de Dion could... Down with the same amount of camber change seen at the heart of an independent system too and LX. 'Ve learned the way manufacturers of cars, SUV 's and ATV 's have been are. In has to be independent rear suspension vs solid axle atv heavy, along with the inside wheel because drivetrain. My '93 Ford Explorer towed fine, but as a ‘ live ' axle – is where rubber... No-Compromise Performance the DeDion assembly, how much weight is vehicle weight which is.... Are also available from these same companies, replacing the weak stock steering parts stronger...