The .38 Super r… I carry the LW Commander in Super most with 1350 to 1400 fps 125 gr HP handloads, 357 mag/357 Sig ballistics. In 1929, Colt tried again with an improved version of the .38 ACP. or .398 AUTO. or.398 AUTO. .38 Super was introduced in 1929, as a higher pressure loading of the.38 ACP. 25 ACP 32 ACP 327 Magnum 380 ACP 9mm Luger 357 Magnum 357 SIG 38 Special 38 Super 40 S&W 10mm Auto: 41 Magnum 44 Magnum 44 Special 45 ACP 45 GAP 45 Colt 454 Casull 460 Magnum 480 Ruger 50 AE 500 Magnum: 223 Remington 243 Winchester 270 Winchester 300 Winchester Magnum 300 AAC Blackout 30-30 Winchester 30-06 Springfield 308 Winchester 50 … High-Velocity as there was a .38 Super Auto also on the market. The 5.56×45mm NATO (official NATO nomenclature 5.56 NATO, fyv-FYV-six) is a rimless bottlenecked intermediate cartridge family developed in the late 1970s in Belgium by FN Herstal. It is objectively the most powerful of the bunch. Shooting and Showing A new Colt 1911 chambered in .38 … Super-X, Super Speed, W-W Super, Super Match, Super Police, 38 Super Automatic, Super 38 Special, etc. load. Find 38 Super ACP Reloading Dies, and 38 Super ACP Die Sets for sale here: Get the right 38 Super ACP Die or 38 Super ACP Die Set for your press here at Midsouth. From there it got out of hand. A limited amount of Super 38 & Super Match 38 produced. Truth be told neither model has been flying off the shelves. 9mm Luger, which we’ll refer to as 9mm for the duration of this article, was introduced in 1902, and is essentially a .30 Luger cartridge that was necked up to accept a .355 diameter bullet. Most .38 Super of the last 25 years or so has been in nickel cases, but not all of it. (You have your regular .38 Auto and a .38 Super Auto. A 38 ACP and a 38 Super cartridge share identical dimensions. That along with the confidence in … Despite the similar name,.38 Super has nothing to do with.38 Special, or any other revolver cartridge. .38 Special vs 9mm comparison. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 3290 W. Big Beaver Rd. Kel-Tyke: The Kel-Tec P32 .32 ACP Pistol; PRODUCT NOTICE: CZ 75 ST STANDARD IPSC MODEL PISTOL; Smith & Wesson Model 637, Chief’s Special Airweight .38 Special; Steyr M40, M357, & M9: New Super M Series Pistols; The Beretta Vertec: A double action auto that single action fans can get their hands around. Suite 500, Troy, Michigan 48084 USA, is an independent enthusiast website owned and operated by Content on is generated by its users. I believe that both Winchester-Western and Remington-Peters did stop plating cases during the War. The books and materials on the subjects at hand that are suggested are also of great value, though often beyond my immediate grasp. Were all Super loads made in nickeled cases from the beginning? If I need better concealment I carry a the little 9 since its better than nothing and its only for a short time once a week. The .38 super auto became very popular among the action pistol competitions of the IPSC. “The .380 was a cute fad,” Springfield Armory’s print ads proclaim. Including putting a bigger hole in your wallet. This allows for more powder, which equals more power and bang. The .380 ACP cartridge was derived from Browning's earlier .38 ACP design, which was only marginally more powerful. .38 ACP/Super is a 23 mm straight semirimmed case. Regarding your statement about the W-W SUPER headstamp, are you saying this headstamp was reserved for only high velocity loads of the various calibers, or that for .38 Auto, this headstamp was only used for the super load? "A government big enough to give you everything you want is a government big enough to take from you everything you have." Dave - sorry, I forgot to address your question. I Your usual sources for ammo will likely have lots of choices in 45 ACP, both for range ammo and self defense Those were quaint times indeed. I do believe that the original intent was exactly as you suggested - to attach a label to new cartridges loaded to higher levels than were previously available. Plus, I consider co-witness is a must-have for red dot, due to reliability reasons. Mucha gente no le gusta el calibre.45 por ser menos veloz! For example, a Model 1911 magazine holds eight .45 ACP cartridges, nine 10mm Auto cartridges, and 10 .38 Super cartridges. The .38 Special is a rimmed, centerfire cartridge by Smith & Wesson. Finally, I will say somethin'. I wish I could read all box lot numbers from all eras, because while I am not sure, I have a number of .38 Super boxes. Kahr and Glock have been making them since the naughties. Everything was identical, not just similar. The confusion with the Super 38 Spl would have been thru cataloging and/or box labels, not headstamps. The FBI claims a bullet has no hydrostatic shock capabilities until at least 2200-2400 fps. 15+1 rounds of 45 ACP, that won’t look bad even compared with some 9mm pistols with 17+1 capacity. While the .45 ACP went the "heavy and slow" route, the 9mm Luger took the opposite tack by shooting much lighter bullets at a higher velocity. For those who don’t reload sometimes it … How were .38 Super Auto cartridges (without box) made to be distinguished from .38 A.C.P. Guy - I am not making any statement about any cartridge other than the .38 A.C.P./.38 Super, the subject of this thread. Die Munition .38 Super ist eine als Alternative zur .380 ACP entwickelte Patrone. Not so fast. 3. S/N SM3725 to SM13803 Service Model “ACE” .22 made, some gaps in numbering; produced in 1945. I have a 38 Super 1911- can I use the 38ACP ammo in my 38 Super 1911, or do I just scratch this up to a learning experience? I have at least one or two in my own collection, a pretty fair assortment of the two cartridge types, that I would not positively say is one type or the other, and that’s after 40 years of collecting that cartridge and perhaps looking at it a bit more closely than I do others, because of the inherent confusion involved with the two loadings. Between headstamp style and nickeled or not, except for WWII era production (and later?) You asked a couple of really good questions. In 1943, commercial models used to fill military orders. I bought some reloads at an auction today and I thought I checked all the bags, but when I got home I discovered one of the 45 ACP bags was actually 38 ACP. Due to various velocity and weight restrictions, many people originally used the .45 ACP… ), but there are some Largo guns with too narrow a breechface for the semirim. With those rounds, only the box label can tell you they are Super 38 and not the lower velocity and pressure .38 ACP. I understand that south of the border it is a sad fact that any early Colt autos that may be found are often ruined by the use of the .38 Super ammuntion that is a very popular caliber in Mexico, etc. An examination of the news and issues, politics, policies, and laws that matter to us all. One interesting thing to think about when it comes to comparing handgun calibers is the concept of caliber conversion.For this particular comparison, the possibility of buying a handgun that can be converted to shoot a totally different caliber is another thing that makes choosing the 9mm over the .38 Special more appealing. The 38ACP cases and the 38 Super cases are dimensionally identical. I have 3 calibers in semi-auto, 9mm, 38 Super and 45 ACP. Aside from the relatively uncommon .38 Super, most shooters only had two choices for semi-automatic handgun cartridges in the 1970s and 80s: the 9mm Luger and the .45 ACP. I doubt it would squib on you but doubt it has enough oomph to cycle the slide. A forum community dedicated to 1911 firearm owners and enthusiasts. In this case, the .45 ACP has a muzzle speed of 1,100 fps, while .38 Super has a muzzle speed of 1,215 fps. Physics says my 225 grain .45 ACP ,+P+ traveling at 1210 fps is more capable than ANY 9mm currently available. I don’t know if it happen quickly, or even was delayed by the Korean War. Yet one produced 100 fps more speed, with the same ammo than the other. Dual-caliber Revolver vs. Convertible Semi-auto. and a Super .38 Spl.) The older .38 ACP cartridge propells a 130-grain (8.4 g) bullet at 1,050 ft/s (320.0 m/s), whereas the .38 Super pushes the same bullet at 1,280 ft/s (390.1 m/s). And they can be used for just about any application you can think of. In 1944 no commercial peroduction of any kind recorded. Also, some W-W SUPER cases have been sold to commercial reloaders who have loaded them to pressures for the old Model 1900-1903 Colts in .38 A.C.P. There were many instances where ammunition could and probably was used in firearms not built to handle the pressures but any resulting damage was the the fault of the user, not the manufacturer. I'd be more concerned someone tried to stuff a 38 Super-sized (pardon the pun) load into a 38ACP case...the case walls aren't as thick, so it might not react too well in an excessively unsupported chamber. Even though.38 ACP and.38 Super are the same size, it is dangerous to use the more powerful.38 Super ammunition in a firearm intended for.38 ACP, as firearm damage may result. To impr… Slowly I build…, Thanks for letting me be part of the fun! I have a 1911 in 38 Super, a Glock in 40 S&W, and a Sig-Sauer in 357 Sig. is not in any way affiliated with. This gives the .38 Special a slight advantage over No 45 ACP, 9 mm Parabellum, 308 Winchester, 30-06, or 5.56 mm. So much for my grandfather’s Model 70 Winchester 30-06 deer rifle. The cartridges, including the .25 ACP, .32 ACP, and .45 ACP, are all made specifically for Colt firearms. I built two identical .38 Super competition 1911s with barrels from the same production lot, both fitted by me. La balle de 38 est légèrement plus grosse que le 9 mm Parabellum qui a un diamètre de 355. both beat the 38 super +p but both have more muzzle blast and recoil. But no one […] .40 s&w and beats the 9 mm. The .38 Super has gained distinction as the caliber of choice for many top practical shootingcompetitors; it rema… It'll cycle a 1911 just fine. CenterPointe. The only thing that is needed is reliable load data. This modernized cartridge had a new name—.38 Super—and the only improvement amounted to nothing more than the cartridge being loaded to a higher pressure If someone can answer the question of when they resumed plating (and what year they stopped doing it due to war-time contingencies) please do answer this thread. load. .38 super goes through lots of common barriers. How Does .38 Super Compare to 9mm? The following ammunition cartridge ballistics information and chart can be used to approximately compare .38 Special vs .45 Auto ACP ammo rounds. $2.00/rd $99.99: In Stock The cartridge of the .38 Special measures 1.155 inch, while the .380 ACP sits in a case only .680 inch long. Highest capacity of 45 ACP (As far as I know). I thank everyone here on this forum for sharing thier vast knowledge with this less than advanced collector. But why then have I not seen a .38 Super Auto cartridge of that vintage with “SUPER” in the headstamp? The whole crux of the matter is, don’t shoot one of the early, rear-mounted slide Colts, or any other gun not fit for .38 Super, with any ammunition unless you are darned sure it is not a Super .38 loading. Thanks much for the very detailed response! Caliber, so that is a reverse of previous confusion due to the WWII .38 Super loads in yellow brass cases. This also means more gunpowder can be used on a .38 Special. The.38 ACP was another invention of John Moses Browning, designed especially for his Colt M1900 pistol. It'll DESTROY cinder blocks like paper plates, wood, metal the works. Dave. Still, it’s unlikely the .38 Super +P will ever reach the popularity of the 9 mm Luger, the .45 ACP or even the .357 SIG which, interestingly, duplicates .38 Super +P performance. While using a locked breech, the pistol's locking design was not very strong, and was superseded in 1929 by an M1911A1-pattern pistol chambered in .38 Super . A 38 Super pistol is chambered to fire .38 caliber rounds. The .38 Super feeds reliably. Actually, on the market, a box of .38 Super costs more than a box of .45 ACP. JavaScript is disabled. Le calibre .38 Super est une création de la fabrique d'armes Colt, destinée aux pistolets semi-automatiques. The .38 Super feeds reliably. During WWII, due to a shortage of nickel, the plating was dropped from many calibers that normally had nickel-plated cases, including .38 Super. The straight vs taper part seldom makes much difference (I saw one guy to post that he preferred 9x23 brass for loading 9mm Steyr, which is a straight case. There’s no doubt in my mind that W and W used the word “Super” with abandon. If you've got a ramped barrel, or even a current production non-ramped Colt barrel that hasn't been attacked by a Dremel, you should be fine. Please note, the following information reflects the estimated average ballistics for None of these weapons have the man stopping power of the 45 Auto. Even though .38 ACP and .38 Super are the same size, it is dangerous to use the more powerful .38 Superammunition in a firearm intended for .38 ACP, as firearm damage may result. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. For example, a Model 1911 magazine holds eight .45 ACP cartridges, nine 10mm Auto cartridges, and 10 .38 Super cartridges. The 9mm Luger also known as 9X19mm Parabellum was designed by George Luger and is the most popular and widely Can someone walk me through the basics of this? A .38 Special bullet is also characterized by a longer case and thus, it is longer and heavier than the .380 ACP. Come join the discussion about other firearms, gun ownership, gun care, tactical firearms, small arms, optics, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! Appeared in the late 1920s, the .38 Super retains the profile of the 38 ACP / Auto albeit with a higher pressure loading. These relatively low-powered designs were intended for blowback pistols which lacked a barrel locking mechanism, which is often … The Super A and Super M were produced concurrently in 9mm Largo and .38 ACP. Pero subestiman su potencial defensivo!!! Whatever a 9mm can do a .38 Super can do more off. Without the box label, you cannot be sure which it is, period! Dimensional I think they are the same but it is loaded way lighter. The gap is narrowed, but the .38 Super still wins. muzzle energy. And for people with ramped 4. .38 special and does it with less recoil. This is good news for owners of vintage 38ACP pistols as cases and bullets are easy to find. I don’t collect sporting rifle or any revolver cartridges, so I cannot make an informed judgment off-hand of the use of the WW-Super or WIN-Super headstamps on other calibers. I am a big fan of 38 Super, but as others have mentioned, you really only get the full benefit of the caliber if you reload. .38 スミス&ウエッソンスペシャル（.38スペシャル, .38 Spl あるいは .38Spc、英語の発音は "サーティーエイト スペシャル"）は、スミス&ウェッソンによって設計されたリムド・センターファイア弾薬である。 主にリボルバーに使われるが、自動拳銃やカービンでも使われることがある。 The .38 Special fared just as poorly, and the standard FBI-issue .38 Special [158-grain, lead, hollow-point +P] also achieved a 67.5 percent success rate. It'll be a little on the weak side, but it should still run just fine as it is. I’m sorry to say that I don’t know the answer and it appears that no one else does either. and 357 mag. Its 1.280-inch length has a big part in this because of the angles at which long rounds feed … Among the initial rounds tested, only the 10mm, .45 ACP and a single .357 Mag round were able to score consistently above 90 percent.” Design. Super tough and reliable. I have it on some box, but never can seem to find an example of it when I want to - I just come across it from time to time working on something else. Sage advice on not making an assumption with an old Colt or other auto that was intended for the .38 A.C.P. 10mm has the highest numbers, highest muzzle energy, moves faster than 45. Other than the question asked by Guy, I’m left only wondering about one other thing that would assist in making the ID on a loose round…Do you know if nickeled cases were resumed on the Super loads right after WWII or after a particular date/time frame? It consists of the SS109, SS110, and SS111 cartridges. Sie ist länger als die weiter verbreitete 9 mm Parabellum . Die dadurch mögliche, größere Pulverladung verleiht dem Geschoss eine höhere Geschwindigkeit und somit höhere Geschossenergie und höheren Geschossimpuls als das 9 × 19-mm-Geschoss [3] . “Now, let’s get back to business.” Back to business indeed. Originally, the identification for the .38 Super cartridge was a nickeled case. The .38 ACP was a slightly less powerful cartridge than the 9×19mm Parabellum and it is now considered obsolete as there are no new firearms being chambered in .38 ACP. Dave, Powered by Discourse, best viewed with JavaScript enabled. based on various manufacturers’ claims. 38 ACP (in general) is 130gr@ ~1100-1200fps; the classic 38 Super load is 130gr@ ~1300fps...not a huge difference. Factor .38 Super is held down since some idiot somewhere will try and run it through a .38 ACP, much to his detriment. (NOT for shooting!). rounds when first introduced, if at all? While the .380 Automatic Colt Pistol (ACP) and the .38 Special have nearly the same diameter bullets (with the .38 Special measuring only .002 inch wider), there’s a significant difference between the rounds. Knocking down rear sight for optic is never going to happen to me. Those boxes had labels that clearly identified the contents and even the arms for which the cartridges were intended. The original 38 ACP fires its 130 grain bullet at 1,050 fps; The new and improved 38 Super’s modern propellant charge accomplishes the same but at 1,280 fps. Nominal specs for standard pressure .45 ACP are a 230 grain bullet at 830 – 850 fps with 350 – 370 ft-lbs. I have been under the impression that nickeled cases were used for this purpose at some point (and more modern loadings of the Super are marked “+P”) but I have no documentation of this. Theres no denying the Glock series of pistols are some of the most reliable toughest handguns on the market. .45 ACP+P ramps the velocity up to 910 – 1000 fps (420 – 511 ft-lbs.) the difference can be assumed for most for collector purposes I’ll guess. The 38 Super +p in some brands of ammo has more muzzle energy than the .45 acp. Thanks again for your sharing your knowledge on such matters! However, off hand, and again I may be wrong as I can’t take the time right now to go through every caliber in my collection, I cannot think of any auto pistol cartridge other than .38 Super (the .38 ACP has not been made by Winchester during the era that the WW-SUPER headstamp has been made, as far as I know) that uses that headstamp. For marketing purposes, companies want their name on ammunition, so while the .38 ACP was created by the famous designer John Browning, he was working for Colt at the time so it took the “ACP” surname. On 28 October 1980 under STANAG 4172 it was standardized as the second standard service rifle cartridge for NATO forces as well as … The Foreign stuff is a whole different ball game. At the times of its introduction, the .38 Super is capable of piercing body armor and automobiles. During WWII, due to a shortage of nickel, the plating was dropped from many calibers that normally had nickel-plated cases, including.38 Super. I forget if I have one in that caliber that has the advisory printed on an end tab, inside, that the lack of nickle- plating is due to wartime needs and doesn’t reduce the quality of the ammunition. While my collecting interests tend more towards the earlier headstamps, I thought the W-W SUPER headstamp was just part of the progression of standard headstamps for the Winchester/Western line of ammunition. It was introduced in the late 1920s as a higher pressure loading of the .38 ACP, also known as .38 Auto. It will I would rather not damage my GI. The headstamps were the same for either caliber, including the caliber designation of.38 A.C.P. A 38 Special revolver is only going to contain 5 or 6 rounds, while a single-stack magazine in a 380 ACP pistol could hold 7 or more rounds depending on the model. Le diamètre de la balle mesure 0,356 pouce (avec une tolérance de 1/1000 de pouce). Not everyone wants a Glock for one reason or another but want a striker fired handgun with similar capacity and overall capabilities. Forty-five caliber single-stack striker fired pistols aren’t exactly a new thing. Rifles are no different. Up until now at least. The 357 sig. What I’ve learned on this forum and from the Journal in the last few years is much more substantial and valuable than any of the resources I’ve used in all the years past. Let's dive into the top 4 Glock alternatives on the market. We like to think we know something about our specialties, but when questions like yours, a very good question by the way, comes up, we find out how little we actually know as fact. Comparing speeds is difficult, as many manufacturers don’t create .45 Its origins are in the.38 ACP cartridge, also called.38 Automatic,.38 Military, and about a dozen other names. The .380 ACP was designed to be truly rimless, and headspaces on the case mouth instead of the rim for better accuracy. The .38 Superwasn’t introduced until 1929, some 27 years later. White Box 380 Auto Ammunition WB380JHP90 90 Grain Jacketed Hollow Point 50 Rounds - Free Shipping with Buyer's Club! Like the 9mm, it was designed off another cartridge, the .38 ACP. .22 to .45 Conversion Units made S/N U1701 to S/N U1750. While you cannot chamber .38 Super in .380 ACP you can chamber i.38 Super in a .38 ACP pistol, which is the equivalent of shooting .357 mag in .38 spl. On the other hand, the .38 Super is able to push the velocity to around 1,215 – 1,450 Feet Per Second. The 10mm has problems, and in their opinion, the .45 ACP solves them. Ideas and Issues. Yet, there are many that will use these pistols for the purpose of concealed carry so they are prepared for all kinds of danger that might threaten their lives or their property. Using the latest ammunitions, the .38 ACP / Auto velocity can reach roughly 1,040 – 1,150 Feet Per Second. This ongoing .38 super vs. the 9MMs is getting more then ridiculous. I am really not sure exactly when they started nickeling cases again after WWII. November 17, 2018 Reply . And they can be used for just about any application you can think of. On the topic of “SUPER”, when the “SUPER 38 SPL.” headstamped cartridge was discussed recently, it was suggested that it was a confusing use of the “SUPER” label on the .38 Spl. We have 38 Super ACP dies for sale, from great brands like Forster, Hornady, Lee, Lyman, RCBS, and Redding Reloading Products. You can be sure that more than one collector is digging thru their cigar boxes and old catalogs as we speak. Some Mexican rounds, for example, are .38 Super and identified by a nickeled case, but do not have a special headstamp or even special box loadings. But you can shoot a 38 super in a steel gun better than the other two. The .38 Super, also known as .38 Superauto, .38 Super Auto, or 9x23mmSR, is a pistol cartridge that fires a 0.356-inch-diameter (9.04 mm) bullet. Both these caliber have been around a long time, been proven over many years, in many different models of handguns, and many Originally, the identification for the.38 Super cartridge was a nickeled case. C'est une version dopée du .38 Auto (en). I’m sorry but a 225 grain bullet going 850 – 1200+ fps vs a 127 grain bullet going 975 – 1150 fps is going to be more effective and deadly. With regard to identifying the hotter loads, you have to remember the time period when they were first introduced. Of late I see this question being asked more and more frequently rather than the perpetual 9mm vs. .45 ACP debates and questions. The headstamps were the same for either caliber, including the caliber designation of .38 A.C.P. Certainly not any version of Winchester 9mm Para. Those are what the buyer’s choices boil down to in the real world. Production of all Super Models continued until 1983, except for the Super C (1946 only), Super D (1950 only) and Super P (1958 only). For this reason manufacturers often include a “+P” on the 38 Super’s headstamp. I've put FMJ Aguila through 1/4" steel from 50' where .45 would only dent it. Perhaps its application, being shortly after the introduction of the .38 Super Automatic, was an attempt to set a standard for the term as applied to the new high pressure rounds being developed that would not be suited for older guns? The Colt Mustang; The Kahr K9 Elite 98 Its 1.280-inch length has a big part in this because of the angles at which long rounds feed compared to short rounds in the same gun design. John, In recent years, Winchester went first from a W-W SUPER headstamp for the .38 Super to a .38 AUTO +P headstamp, and I am pretty sure most other American makers use the +P designation now. Shooting and Showing A new Colt 1911 chambered in .38 Super! Application As mentioned above, the 9mm Luger round is one of the most widely used rounds so it’s obvious that people have access to various guns chambered in 9 x 19mm. The .38 ACP was too big and was used in full-size , locked breech pistols like the 1900 Colt. You have a regular .38 Spl. While the 9mm is often thought of as a modern cartridge, it’s actually old enough to be the .38 Super’s father. The large majority of shooters bought their ammunition in factory boxes. It takes the company’s catalog to know that they didn’t load the older .38 A.C.P. As I re-catalog everything in my collection, I’m often asking myself “Do I really know that, or is that just what I assume?” And of course, my little brain keeps ticking out more questions for every answer I get.